Kaake Road residents don't want their street extended to Stupp property
By Bill Rea

There was not a lot of opposition raised Monday night to the subdivision proposed in Nobleton by Dawsco (Cyrano) Capital Corp., except when it came to how to get into the development.

The main access point, as things stand now, is to be through an proposed extension of Kaake Road.

And Kaake residents don't like it.

That was the main point made at Monday's public meeting held before Township councillors to get input on the proposed 86-lot subdivision being eyed for the west side of Lot 7, Concession 8, also known as the Stupp property.

The whole issue has been referred back to Township staff for further reports.

Planning Director Stephen Kitchen told councillors the development application was originally submitted in July 2005, but planners judged that supporting information was missing. A revised application was submitted in December, and planners proceeded with a detailed review.

Kitchen also stated the applicants hosted a public open house on their plans in February.

The property consists of about 100 acres, but only the western portion of 41 acres is being eyed for development. The property extends all the way to the 8th Concession, but there are valley lands at the east end.

The proposed 86 lots will all contain single detached homes. As well, Kitchen said there are provisions for open space and storm water management facilities.

He also said there are no provisions for parkland, and that the planners are waiting to hear from the Township's parks and recreation department to see if cash in lieu would be acceptable.

He said there are several departments and commenting agencies that they're still waiting to hear from. The Toronto and Region Conservation Authority has offered a number of comments, especially on ecological and engineering matters.

Kitchen said the property slated for development is residential in the Nobleton Community Plan.

He also addressed broader planning issues within the village, coordinating them with other developments, including the massive one in the works to the north by Slokker Canada. Kitchen said there were some common issues between the two proposals.

He said there is a requirement to keep land available for a future connection with the 8th Concession, although there's no apparent need for that road now.

The current plan calls for 30 of the lots to have frontages of 65 feet, 28 are to be 75 feet wide and the remaining 28 will be 100 feet.

Kitchen said there are zoning standards for lots, and this proposal complies with almost all of them, and actually exceeds a couple.

Councillor Cleve Mortelliti raised an issue about a parcel that might be landlocked. Kitchen explained that's a small strip next to the park at the end of Hollywood Crescent. It's near the valley lands, and they still have to determine if there's enough tableland for development.

Planning consultant Brent Clarkson told councillors the Stupp family has owned the property for about 34 years, adding the CEO of Dawsco is a relative. He added they plan to keep the eastern part of the property and remain part of the community.

He said the plan was the result of a lot of consultation with Township staff. They had originally been looking at 116 lots, but decided to limit the numbers. He added they wanted to make sure the development stayed out of the valley.

Clarkson also said they tried to be sensitive to the neighbouring developments. The larger lots are slated to go to the west, adjacent to the existing development. He also pointed out the lots proposed here are generally larger than the ones Slokker has planned.

The applicants are anxious to get on with their development, as Clarkson said they are hoping to catch up with Slokker. If portions of the two developments can be carried out together, he said it could save money and time, as well as sparing the neighbours some aggravation.

Between 30 and 40 people were at the open house in February.

Clarkson said concerns had been expressed about traffic, and he said studies had been conducted and it was determined the improvements proposed for the Slokker development should suffice.

There's disagreement in the community as to whether the connection should be built with the 8th Concession. Clarkson said they have a plan that meets with the intent of the community plan, in which the main east-west street could be extended, with the proposed storm water management pond being reconfigured.

The agenda package for the meeting included a letter from Ilona Kenedi, who owns a little more than 30 acres to the south of the property. She raised a number of concerns, citing the fact there were no provisions in the proposal for future access to the parts of her property that could be developed, which are also zoned residential.

"Failure to provide adequate road access will create a landlocked zoned residential area on my property," she wrote. "This indeed shows very poor and is definitely not acceptable to me."

Her letter also pointed to concerns about drainage.

Clarkson assured councillors drainage will not be a problem, adding they have a couple of ideas on how to address the access issues. One of them is to put one of the proposed lots on the south side of the main east-west street on the north side, thus opening up a possible access point.

Greenside Drive resident Doug McClure was concerned about the traffic data that was being presented. The report being cited, he said, was done for Slokker in January 2004, based on numbers obtained the previous February. "To me, that's a little out of date," he commented.

He also pointed out that multiple families living in single homes are known to occur in places like Vaughan and Brampton. If that happens here, he said there would be problems in terms of traffic, as well as for the local schools.

McClure said the only sure way to reduce traffic volumes is to open up the connection to the 8th Concession.

Kaake resident Elvy Zanette said he was representing his neighbours when he spoke in opposition to extending their street.

"You don't have the full picture," he told councillors, adding that after factoring in the Slokker homes and this development, half of Nobleton's population will be in the northeast quadrant of the village. He also observed these residents will be close to the 8th, so he wondered why the plan was to funnel traffic back to the west, toward Highway 27.

Zanette said there are seven homes on Kaake, and five of them are occupied by the original owners. The street currently ends with a cul-de-sac, and the fact that area has curbs and lighting has led residents to believe it would never be opened.

He added the street already has two turns; one of 90 degrees and the other about 45 degrees, and he said the increased traffic is going to present a hazard there. Zanette said there have already been some close calls, and he suggested councillors get some legal advice, because he warned there could be legal liabilities.

Kaake resident Charlie Wilson was also opposed to opening the street. He agreed this development has a right to exist, but it doesn't have to go along his street. "Find a creative solution," he urged.

"We're turning our neighbourhood into thoroughfares," remarked Mary Zanette, who has lived on Kaake for about 20 years.

She said children are able to play on the street, and that will change if it's extended.

"This is the environment that King has provided for us," she said. "We're taking it away."

Local resident Emil Alilovic also urged that the connection with the 8th go ahead. He said the village doesn't have a resilient road network, adding an emergency situation could develop where whole areas of Nobleton could be cut off. "Unfortunately, bad things happen," he remarked.

Alilovic also said Slokker had set aside $3 million for traffic issues, and he suggested some of that could go toward the connection with the 8th. That $3 million was news to several people in the room, including Director of Operations Jody LaPlante. Alilovic had served on the citizens' liaison committee that looked into the Slokker development a couple of years ago. Councillor Jeff Laidlaw was on the committee too, and he didn't recall such an allocation. LaPlante didn't recall it either, although he said the developer did pledge intersection improvements, traffic calming measures, etc.

Clarkson said the community plan clearly encourages the extension of Kaake as the traffic numbers justify it. "It has to be done in a safe manner," he said.

LaPlante commented that opening the connection to the 8th would involve an environmental assessment, and that would mean the need for the road would have to be identified. Since traffic experts have concluded the existing roads can handle the anticipated load, it would be hard to demonstrate that need.

Mortelliti said he would like to see some analysis of a possible connection with the 8th.

Councillor Linda Pabst wondered if there had been plans to extend Kaake when the street was built. Kitchen couldn't say what people were thinking then, since he wasn't working for the Township at the time. He did say the Official Plan from 1970 clearly indicated lands beyond the end of Hill Farm Road were designated for development, but that was not the case then for the areas beyond Kaake. It's extension was discussed in the 1999 community plan. On the other hand, he pointed out there are no houses at the end of the Kaake cul-de-sac, and that could mean people envisioned an extension.